Christiana Figueres – Hope is Changing Systems and Protecting Our Connection to Nature (Jane Goodall Hopecast S2 EP5)

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Full Transcript:

Jane Goodall (00:05):
When I look back thinking about that childhood, my grandmother saved up coupons from cereal packages. If you saved up enough, you got a book. The book, which has been republished recently, was called the Miracle of Life. It was not for a child. There were tongues for many purposes, feet for many purposes. It went through evolution and Darwin and the Dodo. It went through all the different species of animals, so it was in me.

Christiana Figueres (00:47):
We are all connected, all our voices matter, and it will take all of our pooled talents and strengths to create a healthier planet.

Christiana Figueres (00:55):
Our mother, our one and only hope.

Christiana Figueres (00:57):
I aspire to change the world too, because of the hope she gave me.

Christiana Figueres (01:00):
The art is beautiful.

Christiana Figueres (01:02):
She devoted her life to this.

Christiana Figueres (01:03):
Together we save the world.

Christiana Figueres (01:07):
Together, we can. Together, we will.

Jane Goodall (01:07):
What is your greatest reason for hope? I’m Jane Goodall and this is the Hopecast. Today, I get to speak with someone whose work and influence gives me great hope, Christiana Figueres. She’s a globally recognized leader on international climate action. She was executive secretary of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC from 2010 to 2016, and she played a major role in the formation of the landmark climate agreement known as the Paris Accord. That set the goal of preventing warming above 1.5 degrees Celsius by capping emissions. To achieve this agreement, she’d forged a new brand of collaborative diplomacy, bringing together governments, scientists, activists, financial institutions, spiritual leaders, and other major players to discuss the dangers of a warming planet.

Jane Goodall (02:21):
Since then, Christiana has worked tirelessly to accelerate the global response to the climate crisis. Today, she’s the co-founder of Global Optimism, co-host of the podcast Outrage and Optimism and is the co-author of the recently published book, The Future We Choose: Surviving The Climate Crisis. I’m so looking forward to our discussion about how leaders on the world stage and you and me can collaborate and cooperate to create a more sustainable and ethical world. I hope that you enjoy this hopeful conversation with Christiana Figueres.

Jane Goodall (03:14):
Here we go with another episode and this time I’m absolutely delighted to well Christiana Figueres to Hopecast.

Christiana Figueres (03:22):
Thank you very much, Jane. It is just such a treat to have you on my screen. I do have an opening request. I cannot imagine that any episode on Hopecast starts without a chimp call. Can we hear it from you because I don’t even know how to start a conversation with you without that?

Jane Goodall (03:47):
It’s the distance greeting, so it’s very appropriate. It should actually start all the Hopecasts, shouldn’t it? Anyway, it’s called a [crosstalk 00:03:57]because it’s all one breath. Me, Jane. Hello.

Christiana Figueres (04:08):
Hello, Jane. How wonderful. I do suggest that you start every episode with that, because that is totally… It’s not just a chimp call. It is your trademark. When we hear you, when we listen to you with that chimp call, it just goes straight to our soul.

Jane Goodall (04:28):
Yes, I did it at a very big school a while back and every single child in every single class for the next week was practicing a [inaudible 00:04:39]driving the teacher’s nuts.

Christiana Figueres (04:42):
There you go. There you go.

Jane Goodall (04:44):
Yeah. Anyway, I think what’s wonderful is that you and I both share this sense of hope for the future. How do you explain to people how you feel?

Christiana Figueres (04:54):
I think what we share is on the one hand, the deep understanding of what science is telling us and the trajectories that we’re on with both biodiversity and climate change, should we continue on a business as usual scenario. We know that that is a reality that we starkly face, and that is the gloom and the threat that I think we wake up to every morning and probably go to bed with. In between waking up and going to bed, I think what both of you and I do is, without turning our back to the reality of the challenge, we pull our bootstraps up from the pain that that reality causes us to a deep condition of faith in humanity, a faith in what we can do because at the bottom, there is a goodness in humanity that has got to triumph over the destruction that we have caused.

Christiana Figueres (06:08):
I think that it is that deep conviction, that deep faith in humanity’s ability to wake up and do things very differently, take different decisions, run to the rescue of our planet, including all living beings here. That is what you and I share. You can call it hope, I can call it optimism. There are many other people who call it something else, but that is it. Frankly, Jane, it’s such a difficult choice, right? It’s a choice that we make because the reality out there would want us to close our eyes and roll up in a little ball and cry, which I often do and I’m sure you do too, but if we stay there, we don’t move forward. It’s a choice. It’s a career courageous choice that we have to take every single day to stand up to those challenges and put one foot forward and then the next in the full recognition that this is not about only individual efforts. This is about collective efforts toward improvement for a better future.

Jane Goodall (07:17):
Absolutely. To me, it’s hope includes action. The other day, I thought, okay, it’s as though we’re in a dark, dark tunnel, a rather long tunnel. At the end, there’s this little gleam of light. That’s hope, but the tunnel is filled with obstacles. We have to climb over them. We have to crawl under them. We to work our way around them. If we don’t, if we don’t take that action, that deliberate action to reach the hope, then we never will.

Christiana Figueres (07:48):
What astonishes me, Jane, is the amount of literature and studies that have come out that totally confirm what you’ve just said. That the only way out from the grief and the rage, frankly, especially from young people and the despair, the hopelessness, the helplessness that we are witnessing understandably from so many people… The only way out is actually to take action. Sometimes it’s a small little initiative that can grow into bigger initiatives, but that is the key to opening the door that opens for us from despair to repair, from destruction to reparation and to regeneration. It is fascinating, isn’t it, that it’s not just a mental leap. We physically have to engage in the solution space in order to bring ourselves out of the pain.

Jane Goodall (08:56):
Yes. I meet so many people and I’m sure you do too, who have given up. They’ve lost hope. If you start off thinking globally, the doom and the gloom and the press, the media, you do feel a feeling of despair, but what about where you live? Is there something that upsets you there? Maybe it’s the way your local government is behaving. Maybe it’s plans to build a supermarket where there’s a beautiful little wooded area. Maybe there’s litter on the beaches as here in Bournemouth. Then see what you can do about it. See if you can persuade other people to help you. Then you see I’ve made a difference. I really have made a difference. Then you will want to do more. As you do more, you get more hopeful. Then, knowing that all around the world, there are other people also tackling local problems and feeling like you do, more hopeful, then you dare think globally. That’s the way I think about it.

Christiana Figueres (10:00):
I couldn’t agree with you more and you’re such a teacher on this, Jane. The way perhaps simplistically that I think about this is, this is a team sport. Each one of us has a role to play and we will only succeed if each of us plays the role that we’re meant to play at our total best. Now, if we actually give up and say, “No, I’m not going to contribute for my role,” then we could easily expect everyone else on the human team to also give up. If we understand what our role is, as you say, right there where we are, where we have the direct influence, where we have the possibility to make a difference for one species, sometimes for one single animal…

Christiana Figueres (10:51):
I live on the beach and I’m constantly picking up sand dollars that are washed up ashore and have landed the wrong way up. If they stay there in the sun, they will toast away. They will not survive and I’m constantly turning them around and helping them to dig themselves into the sand. Do I think that every single one of those actions of saving one little animal counts? Absolutely because it makes the world of difference to that one star, but also because it is through those individual actions and through that individual impact that then as a human team, we can make the difference that is necessary.

Jane Goodall (11:40):
Chrisiana, the sand dollar story reminds me. There was a little boy and he was walking along the beach and he was putting them back in the sea and they were littered all the way along the beach. He met this man who said, “What do you think you’re doing? Just saving one or two, can that possibly make a difference?” The little boy was holding one of them and he threw it back in the sea. He said, “It’s made a difference for that one.”

Christiana Figueres (12:11):
Exactly. Above all, it makes a difference for ourselves because we feel so much better about our intervention there with nature. Without taking action, we really very, very easily get dug into doom and gloom and we don’t come out of it.

Christiana Figueres (12:41):
That connection between us and nature is best kindled at a very early age because it only grows with time and it colors decisions that those children will make as young adults and older adults that perhaps they think has nothing to do with their original connection with nature. Actually it does because it will influence certainly the professions that they choose. Even if they choose professions that are not directly dealing with ecosystems, the way that they practice those professions, the glasses that they put on to practice those professions will be very imbued by their connection to nature. That systemic thinking and systemic acting can only come if you are close to nature and you have noticed how innately systemic nature is and understand that we are just one part of that system. When we talk about protecting our home, that’s what we’re talking about. We’re talking about protecting the system, the very complex and beautiful system that surrounds and supports us.

Jane Goodall (14:00):
I want to switch for a moment because your thing is bringing together governments and big corporations and having big meetings and talking about sustainable development goals. How did you get into that and how does it work?

Christiana Figueres (14:15):
When I was very young, under the age of 10 or maybe 10, I traveled with my parents who were politicians and traveled with them to every corner of my home country, Costa Rica. One place that I went with them was to the Monteverde rainforest, beautiful rainforest in Costa Rica. I was privileged to experience a little golden toad that I thought was the most marvelous, gorgeous species I had ever seen. Experiencing that little species is what kindled my direct connection with the natural world. Now, I have since had a direct connection in a true devotion and love for nature. When I became a mother, I thought it is my motherly duty to instill the same love in my daughters. I wanted to take them to Monteverde and I was so taken and so pained because I discovered that that whole species that was endemic to that rainforest had actually gone extinct.

Christiana Figueres (15:29):
When I asked the scientists what had happened, they said they didn’t quite know, but they suspected… At that time, this was 1989. They suspected that a gradual but certain rise in the temperature of the surface of this forest, of the soil surface had actually produced a disease on the skin of these little amphibians. As you well know, that skin is very, very delicate and they had totally disappeared. I was just shocked. I was shocked because I was a young mother in my thirties. I thought, how is that possible? How is it possible that the planet that I inherited from my parents that included this amazing species plus many others and now I am bequeathing and turning over to the next generation, a planet that is severely diminished and depleted. If that has disappeared, then following the logic of that, many other species must have disappeared in those years without me knowing it. I was truly shocked.

Christiana Figueres (16:47):
There began my journey into understanding climate change and its impact acts on the natural world as well as on human beings. Here we are 30 years later with me working and devoting my life to addressing climate change because of the injustice, because of the cruelty of what we have done to the natural world and to humans both together, and to ensuring that we really squeeze out of where we are right now, which is two seconds to midnight, that we squeeze out the possibilities that we still have of correcting course. From a climate perspective, of cutting emissions by 50% by 2030 while repairing ecosystems in order to have a fighting chance of having a world in which humans can thrive and not just struggle to survive. I thank a little golden toad for my life trajectory and here we are.

Christiana Figueres (17:55):
Just to go back and come full circle, how important it is for us as small children to have that direct connection with the natural world. At least in my life, and I am sure I’m not the only one… You and so many other people who devote your life to the ecosystems and to other living beings on this planet, you know how important it is to have that spark be kindled as a young child, as a young person. The beautiful thing about that is that once that spark is kindled, there is no way that those flames are ever going to be put out by anyone. We just work our way through and fan those flames of conviction and commitment all through our life. Thank heavens for that.

Jane Goodall (18:57):
I grew up with this love of animals and this amazingly supportive mother. I was 10 years old when I read Tarzan and decided I would go to Africa, live with wild animals and write books about them. I had no thought of being a scientist. Girls simply didn’t think that way in those days. I wanted to be a naturalist and people say, “What’s the difference?” According to me, a scientist is out to provide facts and statistics and understand exactly how everything works, whereas a naturalist is learning from the magic of the natural world and open to all kind… I don’t think we’ll ever totally understand all of the magic of nature. I hope we don’t.

Christiana Figueres (19:45):
I hope we don’t because we should not completely demystify it. I totally agree.

Jane Goodall (19:51):
Yeah. I find it that the magic and the awe of nature is something that’s so important and science can’t solve some things.

Christiana Figueres (20:01):
Isn’t it true, Jane, that scientists admit that the more they know, the more they understand that they don’t know? Isn’t that just a completely, a bottomless pit, beautifully so actually that we will never get to the absolute truth of the natural world, because it is just so many evolving layers upon layers upon layers that we are still to discover. That’s the beauty of it.

Jane Goodall (20:35):
Christiana, I could talk to you for hours more, but I know that you have another pressing engagement. I’m very sad about that, but I want to just congratulate you on being the driving force behind the Paris Agreement, because that was such a step forward and the driving force between so many of these big gatherings, where heads of big corporations gather and talk and talk and talk. We’ve got COP26 and my biggest hope is that it will lead to very, very fruitful discussions and there will be strong follow up. That’s my absolute hope and that somehow we can reach those nations who won’t be there at the time. It was so wonderful to have you on this Hopecast.

Christiana Figueres (21:25):
Jane, thank you so much. Thank you for inviting me. I totally love the name of Hopecast. I think it is so beautiful because we do have to cast our light wide and very broadly so that we have more and more people really committed to the protection and the regeneration of the natural world. Thank you so much for you, for being such an incredible light, for continuing to shine your light. Thank you for asking me to join you. I agree. I always enjoy every conversation that we have had and look forward to another conversation with you.

Jane Goodall (22:03):
One last thing, every single major religion has the same golden rule, do unto others as you would have them do to you. If we include animals and the environment and nations in that statement, wouldn’t that be a beautiful world?

Christiana Figueres (22:20):
That is the world that we should strive for, for sure.

Jane Goodall (22:40):
I think that my most important message is so many people don’t do anything because they feel helpless and hopeless. What can one person do? The thing is that if we think about the choices we make each day, the little choice. What do we buy? What do we wear? What do we eat? What’s the consequences of that choice on the environment, on animals, on people? We start to make small ethical choices. If that is multiplied by a billion, 2 billion, 3 billion, then we start moving towards the kind of world which will be an awful lot better for our great-grandchildren. If we don’t, then I hate to think what the world will be like in 50 years.

Jane Goodall (23:35):
Feel hopeful and inspired to act with the Jane Goodall Hopecast by subscribing on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, and anywhere podcasts are found. I’m your host, Jane Goodall. The Jane Goodall Hopecast is produced by the Jane Goodall Institute. Our production partner is FRQNCY Media, Michelle Corey is our executive producer. [inaudible 00:24:08]is our producer and Matthew Ernest Filler is our editor and sound designer. Our music is composed and performed by Ruth Mendelson with additional violin tracks from Angie Sheila. Sound design and music composition for the conservation chorus is by Matthew Ernest Filler.

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About Author

Scientist. Activist. Storyteller. Icon. Jane Goodall blazed the trail and changed the world. Now, she's studying new subjects – humans! This brand-new podcast will take listeners on a one-of-a-kind journey as they learn from Dr. Goodall's extraordinary life, hear from changemaking guests from every arena, and become awed by a growing movement sparked by Jane and fueled by hope. Join us as we get curious, grow compassion, and take action to build a better world for all. As we face some of the greatest challenges to humankind and the natural world, we have a unique opportunity: the power of technology to connect and share ideas. Now is the time to galvanize people around Jane’s message of hope in action and bring big thinkers together to change hearts and minds alike. The Jane Goodall Hopecast is produced by the Jane Goodall Institute by Dan DuPont, Shawn Sweeney, and Ashley Sullivan. Our production partner is FRQNCY Media. Michelle Khouri is our executive producer, Enna Garkusha is our producer, and Matthew Ernest Filler is our editor and sound designer. Our music is composed and performed by Ruth Mendelson with additional violin tracks from Angie Shyr. Sound design and music composition for the Conservation Chorus is by Matthew Ernest Filler.